John, I can't argue with you there, John. But experience suggests that sometimes students -- all students -- are only willing to consider making better and different choices when they come to the conclusion ON THEIR OWN that the other avenue is not viable. Saying, "you will never be successful here, so we aren't going to let you try" only gives the student an excuse to keep pushing for the unreasonable. "I could have done it if they would have let me try!" The phrase, "experience is the best teacher" is (unfortunately?) true for bad experience, as well as good experience! Dr. Jane Jarrow