Higher education: not for everyone.
For discussion's sake, I'm going to play devil's advocate here: while it is all well and good to accommodate different learning styles and to assist and encourage students with learning disabilities, I would argue that there are some students whose ambition outweighs their ability and potential. While they can, with great effort and time, learn the same materials as their peers and perform the same tasks at them, once they are thrown into the professional environment and these educational accommodations are removed, they are at a great competitive disadvantage. And, having (most likely) paid for their career educations with student loans, they are now tens of thousands of dollars (or more) in debt.
For them, all this accommodation and encouragement we are giving them is, in fact, doing them a disservice.
In short, higher education is not for everyone.
Thoughts?
Yes, there are people who will not do well when pursuing a higher education path. Recruiters exaggerate, brochures lie, and people simply do not take the time nor perform the proper research when making an important decision. These problems can affect all people, not just people with learning disabilities. Following through into a professional environment, the students with learning disabilities will be more motivated to compensate for their disabilities, to the point where they will not be a factor.
Hi Scott,
I do not agree with this statement as we all learn at different levels. For the most part, once the information is learned the student can apply it fully and move along in life.
Since I am considered a person with disabilities - I am hard of hearing- I can relate to these discussions and I agree with both sides.
My personal opinion is that, as many of you have said, all people with disabilities deserves the opportunity of higher education. In all fairness accommodations are necessary and it is also a period of adaptation and trial for the students themselves to discover the challenges that a specific profession has. Then it's up to them to decide if they want to continue fighting the barriers or look for other alternatives. In the long run it is better for the student with disabilities to face the struggles that comes with the challenges from their limitations in college, figure out what works for them and once they find something that fits finish their degree and enter the world of labor.
If they do not go through this experience, then they enter the world through low-paying degrading jobs where they never fit. Eventually the go job-jumping trying to find something or somewhere to work and this lead to giving up and being dependent from the government finacial help.
Many times the student with disabilities simply wants to show the world that they can perform as a normal person and do not seek help. So, it's our responsibility as instructors is to help these students to find the right path to take or to find a solution to the barriers. I know sometimes there are multiple disabilities that makes it more difficult but still I personally have seen so many people with disabilities to graduate and find a job they can perform.
Also, I know that the fact that they have graduated from college makes employeers feel more confident toward giving them a chance to work than if the person with dissability had no schooling at all. This is due to the perception that at least the person is highly motivated and persistent. In some jobs attitude is more important than skill because you can still teach that person the skill to accomplish a task.
Nowdays many accommodations are available in the workplace as well. For example, my deaf sister works as an office manager and she even handdles phone calls without major difficulties. All of this is possible thanks to the newest technology.
Also, as with everything in life.... it is all relative to the student, the chosen profession, the circumstances, etc..... There are many factors involved, but it is the same with students that has no disabilities as well !
Scott,
I agree with your assessment of a growing problem. As teachers, we are faced with a growing list of problems that we must overcome. Unemployment continues to be a problem, the public education system graduating students with an inadequate education, the need to incur loans to "improve" a person's chance of employment, and the list goes on.
I will ask a question that I try to find an answer every day. Do all of these students have learning disabilities, or is their diability the result of continuous enabling.
This may seem to be an insensitive question, but I assume that a student has a learning disability based on the record of admission. After several terms of personal interaction, I begin to feel that the disability is not "learning" but the inability to overcome years of low self esteem. They don't perform because it is not expected of them.
I know that this doe not apply to the majority, but self-motivation and taking responsibility for your own actions are a factor that I consider to be a possibility for less than average performance.
Ned
I agree that not everyone is college material, but I do believe that it is essential to encourage students to try to achieve their goals. I believe a number of personal factors can interfere with a student's performance, but those factors usually do not hinder a student that is motivated and willing to do the work. I have found that it never hurts to offer a few encouraging words. In fact, when some of my students hear me tell them, "I know you can do this, I have faith in you". They begin to believe it and they seem to try harder to master their lessons.
Many successful people (Einstein and Bill Gates included) did not complete their educations. I agree that some students are not education institution material. However, some teachers are not either.
We need to remember that their lives may be shaped by our positive or negative attitudes. Who is to say that your present "underachiever" will not be a powerful businessperson someday?
Good morning Robert!
This looks like a topic that has been thoroughly discussed. My only addition to the discussion stream is that we as instructors don't make decisions for our students. We continue to have the obligation to help them learn for ulitmate success. And yes - many students have a road of many potholes, but only the individual can measure their own success not what I think it should be.
I currently work in an environment where 70% of the population are felons - very challenging for career services to provide job placement in any industry. But I see drive and commitment to making a new life for their families and for themselves at a very high personal and financial cost.
Our jobs as instructors has a tremendous responsibility in helping people achieve personal goals - and we do a fantastic job!
To all - keep up the good work!
Jane Davis
ED106 Facilitator
At this school it is some what the same. Many aspects of the field are presented to the students. Some do well in all some do not. But the field does have enough diversity where one can become sucessful in a slotted task.
Very good point. From my experience students must play to their strengths, for some that is not a traditional model in a traditional school. The more difficult issue here is helping students find their strengths while also making them aware of what particular careers entails. Just because someone loves to eat... it doesn't guarantee they'll make a good chef. Just because someone loves to play computer games... it doesn't guarantee they'll succeed in IT.
I've had a couple students pass through, when I was a Teachers' Assistant, that I just could not see them graduating. And...as I wanted to see them succeed I was also concerned they were wasting their money on something that might not be appropriate for their educational benefit. What do you do in that situation...
I do agree it is not for everyone. It is not for the people who have priorities other than showing up to class, participating in class, doing their homework, studying, and learning. That is not a disability, that is just lack of caring about the education. I have had several students with learning disabilities. With a few suggestions from me and some extra exercises to hone the skills they lack, they have been able to succeed. That is of course if they tried and tried hard. If they don't try then as we all know there is not much we as instructors can do for them. That is for any student. "Disabled" or not.
I believe some students are not "college material" because they either felt obligated to go to college or were simply too immature to understand the value of a college education. If they return as an "adult" they do very well.
I have students who show up for every class but do not submit any homework assignments. They are bright, participate, but cannot seem to muster up the assignments (I have spoken to them too).
However, the grades one receives in school do not necessarily predict one's success in the work world. I have seen "A" students completely flop and mediocre students do well. It is sometimes a matter of old-fashioned luck and "right place, right time."
I always remember the story of the founder of FedEx, Frederick Smith. He wrote about his idea as an undergraduate and received (he believes) a "C" on the paper. His story says it all!
Thanks! Chyrisse
I must agree with the statement that higher education is not for everyone. I believe that every individual has the ability to learn. However, the responsibility for undertaking the learning is left up to the individual. If the person does not want to learn, then they will not. We are seeing that with adult learners. When they graduated from high school, they were not ready for higher education. This could be due to financial, military or family obligation, or maturity. They went into the world and worked. After obtaining life experience, they saw the need for an education. They returned and are motivated.
I also agree witht he statement regarding opportunity. I believe we should make higher edcuation accessible for everyone. This will allow those wanting to learn to learn. It also allows those that do not, to fail. That is a life experience as well. We must learn from our mistakes.
An example is my own son. He entered college upon graduating from high school. He was not prepared mentally and maturity to be successful. He left and went to work in a beef packing house. After a few years of hard work, he became motivated and appreciated a higher education. He was able to see the benefits of an education.
I agree in a way. "Traditional" higher ed may not be for everyone. However, there are alternative vocations and schools that are more "training" based and can be appropriate for some students who are not successful in regular higher ed settings.
For instance, I work in a culinary school. We have both diploma and assoc degree programs. The diploma program is a good choice for those who do not handle the academic side very well. They spend their school time in cooking labs, learning a new trade. It is still not an easy go, but many students have found success here.
I agree that both sides of this argument have merit. It is hard to see students who have such trouble in school and not wonder...how will they ever make it in the "real world"? It can be easy to worry about the finacial debt they are accruing when as an instuctor you seriously question if this is the right choice for them. This feeling is componded for me by the fact that many of my students are very young and do not really understand the reality of the finacial oligations they have committed to.
However, after several years of teaching I have come to see that some of those very same students I was so afraid for turn out to be fine, more than fine in many cases. They really needed that extra pressure of the "real world" to grow up a little and to have all the tricks for learning and the knowledge they received in school come together.
I also agree. So often at my university I saw students who had no interest in being there, who weren't sufficiently mature to benefit from a college-level education, and whose interests were more of a tech. school nature. When I'd ask why they were at the university at all, they would usually shrug and say that their parents insisted. That's sad because it's a waste of parental money, and somewhere inside such students often begin to underrate themselves. Sometimes a college education--if it's appropriate at all for a given student--is only appropriate later on in that person's life.
Dr. Kendra Gaines
Actually both arguments are valid.
I do get concerned with students going into deep debt especially in competitive fields such as the fashion industry.
I try to distance myself slightly from the "realities" of the professional environment and do my best instructing my students who are slow learners and may face more obstacles to be the best that they can. It can start in one classroom and have a major impact on their subsequent educational path.
Again, motivation and self-esteem reinforcments also go a long way in the success of any student...no matter how brilliant or talented the student is.
Well said, Bill! As we have referenced in earlier posts, students must maintain their parts of the educational partnerships they have with their instructors. It's hard for instructors to support students and encourage independence at the same time - the balance is crucial.
Thanks for your comment!
Jay Hollowell
ED106 Facilitator
I do strongly agree with this comment.
But there is always the student who may struggle in the industry for a while but may eventually flourish.
At some point the educational accommodations end and real life work experience takes over. There has to be a moment where the graduate takes responsibility for his/her future success.
