We would need to make sure that we have a full understanding of what it is to be Employed, Placed, and Not Placed. Maybe convey this information to the student during orientation, as well as, the purpose of reporting their employment status and its importance. This would be a great start to building a good rapport with them.
If the student is not being cooperative with reporting their information, we would simply tell them that this is a state requirement.
Johnny,
Thank you for your post. One of the keys to obtaining employment information is having good rapport with the student throughout their training. Good communication throughout will help in communication after the student graduates.
JP Mehlmann
We encourage students to reveal their employment status but we do not force them. We also have a Student Services Coordinator and an Education Consultant who both help in finding our student gainful employment either during or after school.
Our current process is the assist the graduate is attaining employments prior to graduation for the program. This enables us to attain the required documentation and/or information from the student fairly quickly. If the student is unsure if the current employment opportunity fall outside of the scope of specific training we has a series of questions to gain a clear understanding of the students daily task. This will allow us to determine if the current employments falls within the specific classified area.
If the student is reluctant to share the information we simply let the student know that this is a state requirement to gather this information.
Our current process is the assist the graduate is attaining employments prior to graduation for the program. This enables us to attain the required documentation and/or information from the student fairly quickly. If the student is unsure if the current employment opportunity fall outside of the scope of specific training we has a series of questions to gain a clear understanding of the students daily task. This will allow us to determine if the current employments falls within the specific classified area.
If the student is reluctant to share the information we simply let the student know that this is a state requirement to gather this information.
david,
If you are the person who signs and submits the report, be sure to understand it thoroughly. You must have a completer form for each graduate. The report must correspond exactly to these individual graduate completer forms; i.e., the graduate is considered "placed" if a box is checked that the school directly helped them get the job.
JP Mehlmann
We have a dedicated department that works with the employers and the students. The department will do follow up through various communication methods and file the proper documentation as needed.In some cases the information just can not be attained
Brad,
You bring up some excellent points. Oftentimes, a multi-pronged, problem-solving approach is needed and will bring in information on some graduates. I believe another key is for Career Services staff to develop good rapport with students from the beginning of classes to lessen the avoidance from them once they graduate.
JP Mehlmann
We provide comprehensive training to our career services personnell regarding the statistical processes, measurement thresholds, and vernacular of the Enrollment and Outcomes Report.
This same training is given to various key personnell throughout the organization who are then required to go through and perform a secondary verification of the employment data originally compiled by the career services department. The career services director and campus director are then made aware of any discrepancies and meet to audit the graduate's file.
Working with students who do not wish to disclose employment status is, in my opinion, the more difficult task. I believe the first line of defense is trying to reason with them via phone/email. If that is unsuccessful,a variety of methods can be used to attempt to find out where the student is currently at (e.g. other graduates of the same cohort, externhsip location, social media, etc.). If any information is gathered, you can request employment verification from the employer. They will not release salary data, but atleast you have a place to start.
Arturo,
Employers are a solid source of placement data for graduates. This question is tied into the annual Outcomes Report required by the TWC CSC. Specifically, for each graduate, you must have a completed form PS-072A. The form can be completed by the graduate (where if "placed" the graduate checks the boxes that correspond to the school's efforts to help them find that job). In any event, your annual report must be backed and correspond to, completed PS-072A forms for each graduate.
JP Mehlmann
In many cases we contact the employer to determine how the employer found the student. If the employer found the student through their own advertisement then we know the student is employed verses placed. We also keep a tracking sheet of which students are sent on interviews and follow up with the employer to determine if they were hired or not. 90% of the time employers are the main resource for determining the student status.
Our school used in - school meetings with graduates to secure employment information. We also utilize a wages-earned request form that can be used to locate information on students. We also have skip trace services we use to locate lost students so we can at least attempt to obtain employment information. The best way to ensure that students will gladly give employment information is to make the entire school experience a good one where student's welfare is top priority and concerns of students heard. The entire placement experience should be done with much care and celebration, which will also make it easy to get student information about employment.
Dave,
The original question on this forum is specific to the TWC annual report. "Placed" refers to the school providing the job lead or other direct connection that results in the graduate getting a job in their field of study. "Not Placed" is where the graduate obtains employment (also in the field) but through their own sources. In other words, without the assistance of the school. This must be documented on the completer follow up form (PS-072A).
JP Mehlmann
We use employment specialists to work with students and graduate. They will ofetn get the needed information directly from the graduate, but they also work closely with employers and manufacturers to gather this info.
Thomas,
It would be great if all graduates maintained positive communication with the school. Unfortunately, some do not and in today's environment, 1 placement could make the difference between meeting or missing the required employment rate. Maintaining a positive relationship throughout the student's training is the first step to maintaining communication after they finish their training. Periodically, updating all their references can help find them later. Some schools use incentives for the graduate to stay in touch and/or report their employment status - be sure any incentives are company/legal dept. approved.
JP Mehlmann
P and NP are confusing and they must be correct. We have an exceptional employment department and really don't have this problem. It is tough to sometimes find a completer if they have moved, changed phones, any number of reasons...However, most employed completers have no problem bragging on their new job, unless it is a McJob and not in the field of study.
Ronald,
Many schools utilize a 3rd party verifier to call employers or use other resources to verify reported placements. The TWC CSC has called employers to verify placements reported in school's annual reports and may now be using other electronic tools for verification. The TWC CSC also modified the annual report to include student social security numbers, and electronic reporting. On the TWC website, there is a link to a 2011 letter to schools outlining concerns and steps taken with the annual report. The letter is dated July 26, 2011 and includes:
"During the past several months, TWC has worked to strengthen the protocols that are used to test the accuracy of the annual outcome data reported for each program. In the course of those efforts and through recent investigations of reported performance, issues with the accuracy of some of the reported data have been uncovered." AND, "Further, please be aware that the data reported to TWC is subject to verification protocols and that there is the potential for administrative penalties or sanctions for inaccurate reporting, up to loss of program or school approval."
JP Mehlmann
Is there a verification process to check that the students employment data is accurate?
Karina,
I agree that good communication with students is the key to their cooperation not only for report completion, but ultimately to help in their career search efforts. The first part of this forum question (re: "placed" vs. "not placed", pertains to the TWC definitions for the annual report. i.e. "placed" means the school had a first-hand action in helping the student find employment in their field of study. "Not placed" means the student found a job (also in-field), without the help of the school.
JP Mehlmann
A student who is nearing the end of a program should be working with the Student Services Coordinator or Program Chair. Employment is generally the desired outcome and has been a topic of discusion between the student and the school representative. A check list for each student on desired out-comes and employment strategies is helpful to keep an open and updated dialogue between the school and the student. If we are communicating with our students disclosing thier employment status should be a common topic.
