You have mistakenly interpreted what I have said. It is important for one not to assume that which is unclear. Clarification of my posting is that colleges should train/educate students on skills that they can physically do after graduating from the actual institution. Do not create within the student additional hurdles after being educated with the knowledge but unable to implement the knowledge in the work place. My statement is totally about disclosure with integrity. I hope my statement hear rules out what you had assumed.
Melissa,
Go back and read what you wrote again. You are anxious to make sure that students honestly understand both the possibilities and the barriers that they face in the future world of employment. And that is as it should be. Notice, though, that not once did you mention being more concerned about this for students with disabilities than for ANY student. And THAT is as it should be, too! GRIN
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I believe that this is a very real issue for colleges and their employees. I struggle with this when I have students come through that have significant difficulties in completing the work or interacting with peers. I don't think that I am in any position to determine that those students can or can not function in a given field. I don't know if there is any authority in that area. I think that there should always be open and honest communication with the student but the ulimate decision is the students'. The qualities/characteristics sought by employers are as unique as the individuals that apply for the positions.
Henry ,
You state, "Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students that are disabled about the job viability." Why did you include the words "that are disabled"? Why couldn't it just be, "Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students about the job viability"? Why you seem to be saying is that you believe students with disabilities who successfully complete a course of study are less viable on the job market and that we should be telling students with disabilities that they are wasting their time. I know you didn't say that outright, but that seems to be what you are suggesting. Be wary. That kind of statement can get you and your institution into trouble, as it suggests that you are trying to steer students with disabilities into a more narrow range of careers -- something that is expressly forbidden under Section 504.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
It is irresponsible for a college not to give full disclosure to a person with a disability about their chances of success. Most careers are wrapped with challenges and adversity in the job market. It is important for those that are disabled to know that they must be as self-sufficient as possible to alleviate a company from what a business model may see as an unnecessary risk to their company and stock holders. Bottom line is that tell they all there is to know then let the student decided and not compels them to a degree field.
Colleges must have a truthful and faithful discussion with all students that are disabled about the job viability. Once a student has been told of their chances of success then they can select a career field that provides them with real opportunity to be successful in their informed chosen field of study.
David,
Being honest and upfront about the challenges students may face, based on your observation of their performance in classes (with, as you suggest, all appropriate accommodations in place) is never a problem in my mind. The problem only comes when the "you probably can't be successful in this field" discussion comes before the student ever enters the program, before you have seen the student in action, and before the student has an opportunity to show what he/she can do. Being honest about what you see is good teaching. "Being honest" about assumptions (which are generally based on stereotypes) is bad practice.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
The concept of 'honesty' should not be limited to ANY student--disabled or not. As an instructor, I assess the 'future potential placement/success in their field' of ALL of my students week by week, semester by semester. If my students are learning and performing well, I let them know how their efforts will pay off in the end--making them more qualified. However, if a student is chronically late or misses a great deal of the semester or does poorly on their test scores, I also let them know how this type of activity will hurt them in their chances to succeed in their future employment.
Assuming that the college is doing all the right things as far as accomodations and the disabled student is indeed able to access all of the programs and materials to gain the program's knowledge, why wouldn't an instructor be honest about what challenges/limitations can be expected when they attempt to enter the workforce? As I said before, I do it for ALL of my students. Equal access to my brain and my insight for all!
Tyrone,
I don't disagree... because I don't understand the context in which you are making this statement. Can you explain, please.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Exit should not play a part in entry.
Amber,
The key statement here is, "A person with a disability is likely to be well aware of their limitations, and it's their responsibility to know how to overcome them in order to succeed in a career." It is not only their responsibility -- it is their area of expertise. Most people with disabilities have worked out lots of great coping strategies to deal with their individual challenges -- things that we, as educators, would never have though of because we haven't been in that position. We need to acknowledge that expertise, that comes from hard-won experience.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I absolutely agree with this statement, and as an admissions representative, I will conduct myself with this in mind. Rather than focus on the challenges a disabled person might find in their career, I'd help them explore the opportunities. A person with a disability is likely to be well aware of their limitations, and it's their responsibility to know how to overcome them in order to succeed in a career. For an admissions representative to remind a disabled person how hard their life is seems inappropriate, and may be perceived as discriminatory if the student thinks they are being excluded from a program.
That's true, Ramona. But there are ways... and then there are ways... of saying things to people. The trick is to be honest without being discouraging!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
It's good for the employees to tell the facts..be honest. This way the student can make a good and respectable decision about their major.
Michael,
You have just touched on an important issue. We are told that we should not promise any job, salary, or future event for ANYONE. And yet, when the student has a disability, some would suggest that simply *because* you can't promise any job or salary for THIS student, he or she shouldn't pursue the field. We have to let all students, including students with disabilities, decide for themselves, and make their way forward as they can!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Kevin,
This is exactly this kind of thing we like to hear about in the context of focusing on someone's Abilities, instead of their DISabilities. There are many ways to use someone's talents, and very few fields of endeavor don't provide for an opportunity to perform (and excel) in more than one way.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Yes - who are we to "judge" ???
We are here to provide the education,
Give the student the necessary information, an honest and straight forward approach to the training (physical) and the education (mental) to the best of our ability. What or how the student uses that is up to the student and the future employer. In Compliance we talked about not promising any job or salary or future event, so be it, then we educate and our responsibility ends on the Commencement Stage.
I would totally agree that offering a student career guidance, i.e. explaining that becoming "the next Howard Stern" may or may not be possible in part because of a student's disability, sometimes is needed out of a sense of honesty. However, that should never be expressed as a certainty.
I would agree with all of my colleagues that broadcasting is a business which does not generally employ on-air talent who cannot properly speak or communicate. However, it would be wrong to assume that such a person could not rise above the disability and earn gainful employment.
I once had an adult with learning disabilities in my classroom. His learning disabilities were severe enough that I realized he'd never be the morning show host on a radio station in New York City. But, I discovered he did have a knack for digital audio editing. That would not disqualify him for employment as an "Imaging Director" (a person who is not necessarily on the air, but who creates and produces radio station imaging in a station's production studio which is voiced by a paid outside station voiceover talent. In fact, he learned how to somewhat mask his less than perfect speaking abilities (he was a slow out loud reader) by being able to learn to adjust the pace and tempo of his recordings electronically in the digital editing process. By the end of the course, he was producing acceptable audio production (particularly in the realm of news interviewing), thus I could see him, for instance working in an NPR-style environment, where the deadline pressures of writing or production are less than they are in commercial radio.
Thank you so much. That is excellent advice, and I appreciate the verbiage help. I think I have seen that for some of our schools, so that comforts me that we're on the right track. I will pass this on.
Angie
Angie,
I actually know a blind massage therapist who has been very successful for a very long time. The question you raise is a tough one. How can you be honest (and be careful about being in line with Federal mandates re: successful completion) while, at the same time, not excluding someone on the basis of disability. Part of the answer may lie in having the program develop realistic technical standards. That is easier said than done... not all the technical standards out there are realistic AND legal (under terms of the ADA), but if you can work with the group to develop some appropriate technical standards, they can be a big help in giving ALL students a realistic picture of what they will need to do in order to successfully graduate, thus helping students to "self-select." If you would like to discuss this a little more, you can contact me directly at JaneJarrow@aol.com. In the meantime, try getting the folks you are working with to change the language from, "certain disabilities will preclude successful completion of the program and future employment," to "individuals with significant physical limitations may find it difficult to successfully complete the program or find future employment, as the physical demands are significant."
Dr. Jane Jarrow
This is a very relevant question for many of the schools I work with in the field of massage. It is such a physically demanding field, many of our schools are well-intentioned in their admission counseling and/or "non-discrimination" policies, stating rather boldly that certain disabilities will preclude successful completion of the program and future employment. I have always been extremely uncomfortable with this language and have warned many of them that they may be cruising for a lawsuit.
However, now with the USDE becoming more strict with career schools "only enrolling those students likely to succeed", the schools feel they are in a double-bind.
For the record, I worked in a massage school that had several blind students from Vocational Rehab. It was a beautiful example of how, when one sense is limited the other senses compenstate. Her sense of touch as a massage therapist was exceptional. Whether she established a successful practice, I do not know. However, wheel-chair bound students may have more difficulties with performing massage.
What's the best course of action in such a situation? We have a lot of questions about this.
Thank you,
Angie
