I gather from the discusssion, that all an institution would have to do is set certain "approrpriate" technical standards to keep certain folks from being able to work in that particular field.
Nicholas,
I think you are right, Nicholas. Career schools are sometimes placed in an untenable position by the narrow measures of success used by accreditors who assume that the education you provide for students can and should be used in a narrow way. There is no global answer, as yet, as to how to balance these accreditor expectations with the student realities. That doesn't discount the legal responsibilities, however, and from a legal standpoint, it would be illegal to refuse admission to a student with a disability because the school believes that BECAUSE OF DISABILITY the student may not be employable later.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
"Logically impossible" is a tough standard to meet. I think that with enough creative thinking and proper application of available technical resources, I would not rule out any student for the programs offered at my school.
One standard that we have to meet, however, is whether a student is likely to benefit from the course of study that we offer. Accreditors and other regulators often measure "success" on this topic by in-field placement percentages, mostly (in my opinion) because it is a easy yardstick. Because that is the standard to which I am held, likelihood of employment is a factor that often creeps into the ADA discussion. I often struggle with that concept because in my personal opinion I might think that a person with a certain disability is UNLIKELY to get hired (not unable), and therefore (according to my regulators) unlikely to benefit in the way that a successful program is measured. The argument that is then raised in my ADA Committee is whether it is right to accept the student, or draw down Title IV funds. My response is typically that if the student is well-informed of the costs and potential placement issues, and then chooses to proceed, I am reluctant to say "no."
Heather,
That's always a great strategy, Heather... to let students know and understand what to expect, and then to let them make their own decisions about their appropriateness of the choice.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I agree - I have seen as many students without disabilities who I thought would struggle in their chosen profession as students with disabilities. I try to manage my class and assignments as they will experience in their profession - that way, all students know what is expected when they enter their new career and can see early on if this is for them.
Ann Marie ,
I'll bet you have seen students without disabilities go into challenging fields and fail as well, right? The issue is that we should not be "protecting" students with disabilities any more or less than we do any other student!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
This can be a touchy situation. I have seen situations when students have gone into very challenging fields like nursing with serious disabilities and struggled only to finally fail. You want to save them from the failure, but at the same time you hope they succeed.
Richard,
That's it. Making accommodations should never entail expecting LESS of a student with a disability -- only expecting that the same, necessary result be (sometimes) reached in a different fashion.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
This is a great point, we as a society, I trust, would not want substandard buildings, homes, an ineffective police force in order to satisfy a government mandate of equal access. But, so long as enough of us do not intentioanlly or otherwise confuse equal access with equal results, both our law and society should be served well.
KELLY,
What a refreshing outlook on things. Keep that positive energy... and share it around!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I embrace this philosophy of focusing on Options instead of Barriers---
Attitude plays an important role in determining the success of a student that needs accommodations. Life happens for us not to us. Those that follow a more positive pace meet with greater success----both student and teacher.
Kandy,
Yep! Accommodations are often the way to allow someone with a disability to do exactly what everyone else is asked to do, albeit through a different route.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Regarding your statement about hearing impaired individual not being able to distinguish heart and lung sounds....there are specializes stethescopes available for people to assist with this exact thing. They are very expensive, but we have a current student that has went to the ADA & they are assisting her with cost to get her what she needs.
It is the students responsibility, but all she had to do was ask.
I certainly can't argue with that! GRIN
Dr. Jane Jarrow
I have met and know many people with disabilities of all kinds. Whom have achieved anything they have set their mind to in life. Some not including all in wheel chairs getting their PHD's, completing races, particpating on sports teams, along with many other things. I believe the mind is a powerful tool God gave us and with him all things are possible!
Yolonda,
If your program trains only for active duty officers, then I would probably agree with you. If it were broader -- training that would be useful for someone working as a dispatcher, for example -- then it might be possible. But there is nothing in the law that prohibits the institution from setting appropriate technical standards for the field, even if the inability to meet those standards might be a function of the student's disability. The key word in that sentence, of course, is "appropriate"! GRIN
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Law enforcement may be such a field. With physical fitness standards being required for Ohio officers, perhaps some functional limitations disqualifying students.
Elizabeth,
I don't disagree, Elizabeth. I think there ARE fields that are simply not open to people with certain disabilities to perform in the typical way. But keep in mind that there are non-typical ways of using information. I have a colleague who gives a speech called, "Of Blind Mechanics and Hemophiliac Industrial Arts Teachers I Have Known." He says that, in truth, he has only known one of each, but it was enough to teach him never to say never! The blind mechanic was a young man who had grown up around cars and garages because his father owned the local repair shop. He lost his vision gradually over time, due to diabetes. He could listen to an engine and tell you where to look for the problem. And that is what he did -- he listened and diagnosed, he didn't do the repair work. He owned the garage (when his father retired), and he hired others to do the work.
Dr. Jane Jarrow
Yes I believe there are. You may have a blind student who has a brilliant mind. HOwever they would find it difficult being a surgeon, mechanic or take part in another field which requires visual acuity. It doesn't mean they couldn't very successfully be any of these if they weren't visually impaired. However, would you feel safe flying in a plane with a blind pilot, even with the technology available to help?
Julius,
Ah! You have recognized the basic civil rights nature of the laws. When you compare the struggle of students with disabilities to receive equal opportunity to the struggle for gender equity or minority status, it tells me you have internalized the basic message -- that students with disabilities are more LIKE every other student than they are different, and they deserve a chance!
Dr. Jane Jarrow
