Loren Kroh

Annette, please share your thoughts to start the conversation. How do you think the process is different in the traditional sector?

Loren Kroh

Annette Ruth

I have always had an issue with the term "sell" in connection with post secondary schooling. Personally, I feel the admission business model within for-profit schools is flawed. I have my ideas... but I would love to hear what others think about how to change/alter this philosophy?

Shani Levy CHEP

I think that is very important that the reps and the academic department have good communication so that we are giving the students a consistent message.

That way we can eliminate the "he said, she said" issue that students tend to do to the two departments.

I also think that by having good communication we will all know what is expected of students and understand what each department is trying to accomplish. So that admission understands that if a student has children and they have to be collected at 2pm, they cannot sign that student up for a class that finishes at 1:45pm. As the student will have an issues that may lead to them withdrawing.

rebecca moore

I think as an advisor we should also educate the addmissions department on the programs they sell. If we are very firm on how to sell a paticular program it might help to gain the students that really are dedicated to the education.

Teresa Buglione

The admissions rep has to do more, dig deeper if we just go after a number then in the end we have failed the student and the school as a whole. Admissions affects the whole school and this can cause a tricke down affect, drops will increase if the student is not ready or a match for the school and then you have an increase in bad debt.. It should be a screening process not selling a product checking to see if the student is ready, do we match and do they match us. End result is what we put out into the community, a well trained and qualified individual. I know we all have numbers to meet but, I think when we view them as number we lose focus and sight of what is right. " Do what is right for the customer" sometimes saying no and making the admissions citeria stricter is the right thing for everyone..

Loren Kroh

You raise the question of culture, Teresa. While I agree with your point about seeking a good match, in a quantity oriented institution an admissions rep is doing an effective job when they meet their numbers. Do you have any thoughts on how instructors can change this type of mindset?

Teresa Buglione

I do not agree with that i feel enrollment should be more of a screening process to ensure the student is a match for the school and the school a match for the student. When you push in people and do not look at it from both then you are not doing your job effectively

Loren Kroh

Tracey, there is no question that old views are very difficult to change; particularly if the faculty feels that they are the only ones working on the “problem”. They must see that there is a systemic approach to improving retention. This includes support from administration and a belief that admissions is trying to recruit “graduates”, not just “numbers”. Hopefully, you have been given some resources and authority to make effective changes.

It is also important to include the student in this equation. Faculty can't “salvage” students. Only the student has the ability to take the steps necessary to succeed. Lowering standards to solve this week's problem [or any other salvage practices] will only postpone the inevitable. The students must be helped to understand the challenges they face, appreciate the available resources and develop the motivation needed to reach their goal.

Tracey Hebert

I oversee faculty at my institution and I'm trying to overcome a cultural problem whereby many faculty have a negative view of the retention discussion. The perception is the same as suggested in your comment that there are many students that we just can't do anything about and we shouldn't spend time and resources trying to salvage them. They believe the time and resources are better served focusing on the students who are likely to succeed. Subsequently, the institution hasn't developed any support structures to help under-prepared or under-performing students. It is a sink or swim culture. I'm moving to create some of these support structures irrespective of past perspectives, but I don't doubt that it is going to be difficult to change long-established faculty views. Thoughts?

Loren Kroh

Stacy, admissions reps typically do probe prospective students about barriers to admission and/or classroom success. Theoretically, these issues are identified and resolved before a student starts. However, these issues aren't often shared with educational and support staff. Is there a mechanism in place at your school that could facilitate this flow of information about students?

Stacy Trapp

I wonder if we had the admissions reps. identify potential stressors, challenges, etc. during the student's interview process this could possibly send up red flags before they enroll, these may be issues they hadn't even considered before considering school. Although, I do agree that all students should have the opportunity to seek education.

Loren Kroh

Paul, are you suggesting that the standards for enrollment are inadequate? Are financial or living situations as reasons for withdrawing limited to less qualified students? How is your peer tutorial service structured and how successful has it been?

Loren Kroh

How do you motivate students enough to make them feel better about themselves, Maria? Is this part of a class or does it happen in a formal advising environment or one-to-one conversation?

Paul Magno

There are policies our school comply with as regards quantity of students per class per teacher. Quality of students enrolled are appraised through attendance and academic status. With a high enrollment for a class, there will always be a percentage of less qualified students. As regards financial or living situations as reasons for not retaining the less qualified students, it becomes a fine line to keep them as far as graduation. We do offer peer tutorial service to our students, with the hope that retention rate goes well with high quantity enrollment.

maria pandolfo

Most students do have issues as you mentioned, I feel that in some cases motivating students enough to make them feel better about themselves might be a place to start

Loren Kroh

Mandy, I agree that it's important to have many resources available for students. Powerful next steps are to help them clearly define the problem they have, identify alternative solutions and the resources they need to affect positive change, and then encourage them to take the next steps. This process helps them develop valuable skills and keeps responsibility for the problem where it belongs – with the student. They also feel empowered to change their lives.

Mandy Niebuhr

Michele I know exactly what you mean. I too work at a for-profit Career college. It has been a learning experience for me to understand how to help all students, regardless of what "baggage" they bring to classes.
I have found that having as many resources on hand as possible is the best solution for me. I try to provide a few housing options, make appts with the Financial Aid director, discuss our tutor program with them.
The more answers I can provide, the higher chance they can make a solid decision.

Loren Kroh

I hope that you can start changing the culture at your college so that people don't talk about the blame for retention, but rather how people can share the responsibility for retention, Suzanne. You touch on several starting points: tools for teachers, admissions practices and student support. Hopefully, there is a means to develop those concepts at your college.

Suzanne Heffner

I teach at a career college and the blame goes back and forth for retention. I do think the teachers need to be better equipped to help students in crisis but many times student are well not pushed but strongly persuaded to start class because of admission enrollment requirements. I agree every student that can pass the entrance exams has the right to make the decision to attend or not to and as their teacher I have a responsibility to do all I can to help them achieve their goals.