Annual Enrollment and Outcomes Reporting
When submitting the annual Enrollment and Outcome report to CSC, it is sometimes difficult to know what category a student who is employed in the field falls into: Employed, Placed (P), or Not Placed (NP). What methods and steps do you utilize to determine what classification a student falls into? How do you work with students who do not want to disclose their employment status?
John,
Thanks again for you posts. The big difference between the "placed" and "not placed" definitions with the TWC are that Placed is where the graduate states (on completer survey form or via phone) that the school directly helped them get their job in their field of study and; "not placed" is when the graduate indicates that they obtained the job without direct assistance from the school. The biggest challenge in obtaining graduate cooperation is not the follow up after graduation, but the overall relationship with the student starting at the beginning of their studies.
JP Mehlmann
Hello Darlene,
Thanks for your post. Part of the forum question asks "how do you determine P or N (not placed)?" The short of it is that this determined from the completer survey completed by the graduate OR, the career services person can document the graduate's answer to the question over the phone.
JP Mehlmann
We coordinate closely with our Career Services department to track, prep and support "in-Field" placement. This keeps us in the loop with employers and students thus helping to increase our Placed status. We track the current studentswho are already working in their fields at various levels. Sometimes current students and graduates are reluctant to claim they are working in their fields. Close discussions with the students help to identify how their work relates to their programs of study and vice versa.
The big challenge comes with those who want to drop out for awhile and not work after graduation nor continue on in advanced studies. Sometimes we need to engage the employers to verify whether the emp-loyed students are woring in their fields.
Our school assist graduates by helping them obtain positions in their respective fields of study and provides guidance on self-directed job searches.
Through our training in career development, a student is taught job-seeking skills that will be useful throughout his or her career.
we have an employer base comprised of companies that have either hired our graduates in the past or are looking to hire our graduates.
We understand P vs NP.
Keeping accurate records and open communication with the graduates is the most important step in assisting you with determining what classification a student falls into. Maintaining the PS072A for each completer is a good way to help a school gather data and also, if the student completes the form, use it for verification. Keeping a good relationship with students and graduates can help with not having students not want to disclose their employment information. If the student obtained the job through the schools career services office, the school can gather information from the employer.
Prem,
Yes but there's more...
PS-072 is one piece of the puzzle. The best way to learn these reports is to be involved in the process of putting the annual report together. It is a process that happens continuously (NOT just when the report is due) and with (and before) every graduating class; i.e. having the students participate in an exit interview to include the TWC CSC form, following up if they obtain employment after graduation, and ensuring your have a form for every graduate. Please look at the forms section of the TWC CSC website for the complete forms packet, including instructions.
Thank you!
JP Mehlmann
PS 072 gives an idea to help this out.
After about six months as a director, I can see where starting early in developing as positive relationship as possible with students is key. Problems will inevitably arise in some cases, so building some degree of good rapport with them can be very helpful in resolving issues.
Leticia,
I recommend you review the report instructions. Both P and NP acronyms are for graduates working in their field of study. P is for placed and (in short) means that the graduate says we helped them directly obtain their job in their field. NP means they got a job (in their field) through their own efforts or contacts.
The number in either category is not as critical as the overall employment rate of grads which is P and NP combined. I agree that open communication is key to graduate cooperation.
Thank you,
JP Mehlmann
In order to determine if the field of employment falls into (P) or (NP) we use the descreption of the courses the graduate from. If they are performing the majority of skills that they learned then it is a (P). The school also will only count the placement if the student has stayed employed for more than 30 days. It is always difficult when you have a student that will not disclose their employment status. We try and keep an open communication with the student to encourage that this information is only for our records and to know if we were able to accomplish our goal of placing our students in the field of study.
Susan,
An excellent, detailed answer. The TWC CSC verifies the school's annual report in a number of ways such as calling students and employers, as well as comparing the report to the back-up data - including the required PS-072A for each student. The PS-072A must be completed by the school or the student (in the aggregate for each program) and must correspond to the data in the annual report.
Thank you,
JP Mehlmann
What methods and steps do we utilize to determine what classification a student falls into?
Here is how we determine what category a student should be classified:
-A completer is consider "Placed" when he/she was assisted with their job search and the acquired position is related to the degree they completed.
-A completer is considered “Not Placed†when he/she secured a position that is related to their degree but found the job on their own without any assistance from the school.
-A completer that is employed (but not in a position that is related to their degree) is not considered as “Placed†or “Not Placedâ€. In this case, they would be in the “Other category.
How do we work with students who do not want to disclose their employment status?
This has not been an issue for our campus so far. Our approach has been to be proactive and we try to establish a strong and healthy relationship with our students so they are willing and excited to share employment information with us. It should be noted that as part of the exit interview with Career Services, students are required to sign a "release of information" form that allows us to request verification of employment from an employer.
Michael,
Yes it is still counts for the school when a grad gets a job under the NP category (meaning they claim to have obtained the job on their own, without direct help from the school). For the annual report, this would be reflected in the schools "Employment Rate" which includes all NP and P employed graduates. The Employment Rate is the better indicator of the success of the program. Unfortunately, this methodology assumes that a placement is only when the school directly helps the grad get a job (like providing the job lead).
Thanks,
JP Mehlmann
Does (NP) Not Placed counted for or against the school? It is still a placement, correct?
Michael,
Thanks - you ask a good question. TWC CSC does not require a signature if the school obtained placement info from telephone or other records. In fact, I have seen some schools have the student sign the form at an exit interview prior to the student obtaining employment. This is not acceptable. If you look at the PS-072A form, the student signature line is included and part of the data lines for employment info. In other words, the student/graduate should only sign it when they are reporting their employment info. In addition, the Annual Reporting to CSC must match the cohort set of PS-072A forms for all the students during the reporting period. This set of data forms should include a mix of student reported (signed) forms as well as forms completed by the school. i.e you must have a form for every graduate (suggest you review the reporting requirements at the beginning of the reporting year so you can start your data set accurately and in line with the reporting requirements.
Thank you,
JP Mehlmann
Just for clarification purposes, does TWC/CSC require student’s signature on TWC form PS-072 if staff member obtained placement info via telephone conference or transferred data from student record?
Katherine,
Excellent answer. I agree that relationship-building is the key to graduate cooperation and also to employment/ placement success.
JP Mehlmann
If a student has gained employment in their field of study, they would fall into the "employed" category. If the school assisted with job placement resources, such as job leads, job fairs, etc., then the status category would be "placed". If the school did not provide employment assistance, then the status category would be "not placed".
We work with students beginning at orientation to build relationships that ensure student compliance upon successful completion and job search. We also have students complete a release of employment and wage verification that we are able to send to employer partners, to try to gather required placement data on graduates.
Hosting in-house job fairs and employer presentations are a great way to generate relationship building, not only with students, but employers as well.
Eddie,
Absolutely - building rapport with the student early on, and throughout their training is key to obtaining placement/employment information later. Uncooperative students often have one or more reasons for their lack of cooperation. A common misperception by graduates is that they do not want the school to "take credit" for their employment success (especially if they feel they obtained a job on their own). It may help to communicate to students that, in addition to the state requirement for data, the state reports we complete differentiate how the student obtained employment: i.e. on their own or with help from the school so we will report it accurately. Another way to encourage communication is to tell them our concern is that they are employed, not who got them the job.
JP Mehlmann
